I Ain’t No Young Man No More

The Bureau of Prisons makes it deliberately hard to interview federal inmates. In the case of political prisoners like Leonard Peltier, they make it even harder. But in this episode, we get around all their procedural barricades and finally speak with Leonard himself—about his health, his hopes, and his future. We also interview Kevin Sharp, the lawyer petitioning the Trump Administration to grant Leonard clemency. And we talk with two of Leonard’s close friends: Lenny Foster, Leonard’s long-time spiritual adviser who’s brought healing to more than 1,500 imprisoned Native Americans; and Connie Nelson, the filmmaker and activist (and former wife of Willie Nelson) who's been advocating for Leonard’s release since the 1980s.  

Transcript

RORY
Oh man. Well, geez. That was it... They just cut it off. 4:21 Cinco de Mayo. 4:22 now. Um, gosh, my heart was just racing. It said scam likely when the call came. So I'm trying to get ready to go to my father-in-law's 70th birthday here. And the phone started ringing and I'm like, Oh my God, I know it's going to be Leonard. Scam likely, definitely Leonard. And it was Leonard. And we're going to start emailing. God, I wanted to ask him so many questions…

[MUSIC UP]

VO
You’re listening to LEONARD: a new podcast series about Leonard Peltier, the longest-serving political prisoner in American history. 

I'm Andrew Fuller.  And I'm Rory-Owen Delaney.

We’ve spent the last year working to share Leonard’s story with a new generation of people: who he is, how he ended up behind bars, and why we believe he deserves to go free.

The audio you just heard was recorded in the moments after I first talked to Leonard on the phone. As you can probably hear, I was almost shaking from nerves and excitement. 

At the end of this episode, we’ll finally be sharing that conversation.

In the first five episodes of this season, we’ve heard from a lot of the people who were there on the ground on June 26, 1975, when a firefight broke out between two FBI agents and members of the American Indian Movement camping out on the Jumping Bull ranch in Oglala, South Dakota.

And we dug into some of the events that led up to the shootout—Alcatraz, Mount Rushmore, the Trail of Broken Treaties, the Custer Courthouse Riot, Wounded Knee, and Dick Wilson’s Reign of Terror—to help explain why tensions were so high on Pine Ridge in the mid '70s. Why everyone was armed, and ready to shoot, at the slightest provocation.

Season 2 of this podcast is all about the aftermath of the shootout. The trials of Dino Butler and Bob Robideau that ended in acquittal; Leonard’s trial, which ended in conviction; the 4-decade fight to free him; 

All culminating with Leonard’s release from prison, ideally.  Fingers crossed.

But in this episode, which is the last installment of Season 1, we’re going to give a little preview of the miscarriage of justice that resulted in an innocent man spending 44 years, and counting, behind bars.

As I mentioned, we're going to hear directly from Leonard today. But first, it’s time to re-introduce Kevin Sharp: the lawyer who's been petitioning the Trump administration to grant Leonard clemency.

Kevin Sharp
I'm the guy that picks up the heaviest rock in the quarry. 

VO
That’s Kevin. Back in the mid 00s, Barack Obama appointed him to the bench of the United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee. But now he's back in private practice, advocating to end mandatory minimum sentencing—and working to free Leonard Peltier.

Kevin Sharp
You know and it was about a year ago that I got this package in the mail. Um, and I get from time to time, I get letters from people who are incarcerated and they're looking for help and, um, you know, wanting me to take their case or whatever it is. And it's just hard to do. And most people don't have, um, cases that really have a realistic chance. Um, but I sat down with this package that was sent to me and was just blown away. It was newspaper clippings, it was trial transcripts, it was documents, it was photographs. It was photographs of paintings. It was the entire Leonard Peltier story in this big envelope. I was only 12 at the time of these events. And so I had a vague recollection of something like this, but most of it surrounded Wounded Knee more than the Pine Ridge firefight. Alcatraz, you know, it was all just kind of bumping around in there because, um, you know, early to mid seventies, to me, thinking back at it just seems so chaotic. Um, and now here we're, we seem to be living it again, but you had three television stations, you know, PBS gives you four.=

Kevin Sharp
And so everybody was watching the same thing and you sit down at night with your TV tray and you crowd around television and you watch the news, even though you're 10, 11, 12, 13 years old, that was what you did at night. And so it always just seemed to be, what's the hijacking, what's the, what's the domestic unrest, where's the protests? What are the body counts? I have this clear recollection of just getting body counts on the nightly news. And so I had this recollection of something that had happened out there, but it seems so far removed from me in Memphis. To then to get this package and start going through this now, having a background, not as an observer, but as a participant in the judicial system and someone who has really spent my life doing that.

Kevin Sharp
Cause I got out of high school. I didn't go to college. I joined the military, uh, working at nights, uh, really early morning, 2:00 AM to 6:00 AM. I cleaned airplanes, uh, for American airlines. And then I would go to class at eight and we'd go to class, get work done for the next day of school. And you know, didn't go to sleep only to wake up at one, get to work by two. But it was all I had this plan, and it all revolved around the way that I viewed kind of the, the American promise and the American ideal and what all of this meant. And the importance of people who can take up the mantle and the cause for those who can't. And, and, you know, really that kind of hit me in my early twenties. And so that's what I did. And, and then I practiced law and I did civil rights work.

Kevin Sharp
And then I am lucky enough and fortunate enough to get appointed to the bench by President Obama. And you said, all of that is my life. And then I stepped down from the bench, and I get this envelope. And I'm looking through it and I'm thinking, Oh my God. I realize this was 45 years ago, but my God, this is still going on today. Um, you know, what can I do? And maybe the answer is not much, I don't know. It consumes my life for now trying to figure out how to, how to right this—in the sense that you can ever right it. You can't make it right, but you can stop it.

Rory
You know, what is your strategy right now? What is the best way you think to get Leonard out of there?

Kevin Sharp
Well, there's only one way left, and that's an executive clemency. The presidents have been reluctant to go against the FBI. Because I have that same feeling. No, this can't be true. This is not the FBI. You know, that's, that's not who they are. I watched the television shows. I dealt with them on the bench and it just wasn't my experience. But then I'm reading this and you were just floored by what they did. And that the US attorney went along with it. And the, and the Lynn Crooks, um, interview with, with Croft is really frightening. 

VO
We’ll be digging into all of this in much greater detail next season, but here’s a quick primer on why Kevin believes the Federal Government essentially framed Leonard.

Leonard was convicted of murdering FBI special agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams in April, 1977, largely on two pieces of evidence: a sworn affidavit from a woman named Myrtle Poor Bear, claiming that she saw Peltier execute the agents; and the testimony of an F.B.I. ballistics specialist who performed tests on a .223 shell found near the agents’ vehicle.

To the second point, first. 

Leonard had access to an AR-15 — which fires a .223 round — but the gun had suffered serious damage in a fire. It was impossible, the FBI’s expert testified, to test the weapon’s firing pin. However, he was able to analyze the mechanism that discharged the spent casings. Markings on the shell found at the scene, the specialist alleged, could only have been ejected from Leonard’s rifle.

Twenty-three years later, though, a Freedom of Information Act Request revealed that the ballistics expert had lied on the stand. He had, in fact, been able to test the firing pin. 

And the impressions didn’t match Peltier’s gun.

Now to the affidavit. 

Myrtle Poor Bear signed an affidavit claiming she’d been on the Jumping Bull Ranch on June 26, 1975, and had seen Leonard kill the agents. 

But by the time Leonard’s trial was scheduled to begin, she reversed her story and began to claim publicly that the F.B.I. had pressured her into inventing her eyewitness account. But when she attempted to correct her statement, Judge Paul Benson barred her on, quote, “grounds of mental incompetence.”

Here’s Myrtle Poor Bear speaking with 60 Minutes’ Steve Kroft back in 1991.

Myrtle Poor Bear
The first time I met Leonard was when he went to trial in Fargo, North Dakota.

Steve Kroft
You’d never met him before that?

Myrtle Poor Bear
I’d never met him before. [Slower fade-out on the Myrtle quote; too abrupt right now]

VO
A single mother working at an elementary school, Poor Bear maintains that the FBI threatened to take her daughter away, and get her fired from her job, if she didn’t cooperate.   

Myrtle Poor Bear
They said, ‘You’re gonna know him because you’re gonna testify against him in court. And we’re gonna tell you everything about him.’

Steve Kroft
So, they wrote this up? 

VO
In the interview, Kroft holds up a copy of her affidavit. 

Steve Kroft
And you signed it?

Myrtle Poor Bear
Yes, I did.

VO
And remember when Kevin Sharp said, quote, "But the Lynn Crooks thing was really frightening"? He's referring to an interview Crooks gave to Steve Kroft back in 1987. And here's what Crooks, the lead prosecutor in Leonard’s case, had to say about Myrtle Poor Bear’s allegation that the FBI had coerced her testimony: 

Lynn Crooks
Doesn’t bother my conscience. If everything they say is right on that, doesn’t bother my conscience one bit. Man’s a murderer. He got convicted on fair evidence. Doesn’t bother my conscience one whit.

Kevin Sharp
When he looks into the camera and says, what if, what if, what they say is true? It doesn't bother my conscience one bit. I'm thinking, Oh my God, how can it not? 

Kevin Sharp
You didn't care about what happened and he, and you can tell, by the way he says it, he knew it was true. And then he gave a halfhearted denial, but then says, but what if it's, what if it is true? Doesn't bother my conscience, right? And, and that is frightening. So, you know, that's part of what we've got to do. And I think it's become somewhat easier now is that cloak of complete perfection and justice for all from, you know, what really is one of the greatest law enforcement agencies in the world—at least their ability to investigate when they chose not to. Because they backed into it, right. They knew where they wanted to come out and they backed into it. Now let's create the evidence to show at least so that we can convince somebody that this is what happened. And so I think that people are willing to question the infallibility of these organizations, whether its US Attorney's office or the FBI, or the BIA, or the US Marshals. That there's that opening. And you've got a president, um, who is willing to look at that and really is not worried about what, you know, someone says about him or what the FBI says about him. 

Andrew
That's the truth. 

Kevin Sharp
Right? That is true. As I started putting together, um, a petition, I went back and looked at prior petitions and their strategies for making a case that, at the end of the day, would carry the day. And I looked at what they did. And as I'm talking to this person, who's, who was helping, uh, you know, I said, one of the problems was I think that the Presidents were afraid of the FBI. And this guy looks at me and goes, you want to know who's not afraid of the FBI? Donald Trump. So, the strategy is to get it in front of him. Leonard's story is so compelling, if you'll listen to it. It's really hard—you guys know this—it's really hard to break through the misinformation. 

Kevin Sharp
A lot of it's still generated by the FBI and some of it even, um, inadvertently, you know, certainly not intentional, but even my people who want to support Leonard and that are supporting Leonard, talk about this in the wrong way, because everyone's confused about how the case turned out and that, you know, he was convicted of shooting and killing two FBI agents. No, he wasn't. And even Leonard Peltier supporters don't realize that. That that case fell apart. As soon as all the misconduct came out and the US attorney had to abandon it. But it got abandoned on appeal because they were going to lose, right? On appeal, if they stuck with that cockamamie story that they had created, it was over and there would be no way to retry it. Likely the court of appeals would have said, well, we're going to, we're going to set this conviction aside. 

Kevin Sharp
You go retry it. There was no reason to retry it on that theory because they had zero evidence of it. You know, by the time it comes out that the ballistics test, you know, what we refer to as exculpatory evidence was hidden is a Brady violation. It should be over. If you withhold that evidence, it's over. People don't like Peltier. They don't like what he had to say. And part of that was a result of the disinformation that was created by this post-Hoover FBI. And so, you know, he's part of AIM. They're bad guys. We don't like what he had to say. We think because we initially believed, you know, the people out there who are opposed to clemency for Leonard, um, you know, we believe he killed these guys. Okay. I don't give a shit what you believe. There's no evidence of that. 

Kevin Sharp
And let's be consistent. The rule of law has to mean something. Constitutional rights have to mean something. Otherwise we just throw them out and who's ever has power just wields it, how they want. That's great I guess if you're the one in power, but you're not always going to be in power. So there has to be this constant. There has to be this ground that says no matter which party is in power, the constitution is always the highest law in the land. That I think is the argument.

Andrew
I think even now, you know, George Floyd, too. 

Kevin Sharp
You're right, that's the next one, because there's another argument to be made. It was the politics of which voices we’re going to allow to be heard, and which ones were not. And the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover were deciding which ones those were, which voices today, do we get to hear? A lot of people, you know, just think, ah, it's Native Americans. 

Kevin Sharp
This has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with you. It has everything to do with all of us, because if they will do that to a minority group or dissenting voice, you know, at some point your voice is the dissenting voice. Everybody's gotta be protected. The same laws and the same constitution has to apply to us. The system falls apart if the rules are fluid. The rules can't be fluid. FBI, you don't get to decide who wins and who loses. 

[Music up]

Kevin Sharp
Grant Leonard clemency, right? Let's show some mercy. You can recognize the misconduct of the FBI while saying it's time to heal this community. It's about the rule of law. And it's about our Native American communities. And it's about how they've been treated. And it's about how the FBI and those people in power had treated those with whom they disagree. “Sure. We cheated. Sure. We made stuff up. But I think we got the right guy.” And that's how they do it. And they've staked the reputation on it. And that's why they can't let it go.

VO
Next season we’re going to explore how Leonard has been repeatedly denied a new trial despite the clear suppression of exculpatory evidence and the fabrication of affidavits. 

The government got caught cheating. They coerced a woman, who wasn’t even present at the Jumping Bull ranch, to say she personally saw Leonard fire the shots that killed agents Coler and Williams. And the prosecution hid a critical ballistics test from defense lawyers.

Why? Perhaps because the Department of Justice, which enforces the laws of the Federal Government, is somehow still afraid of anyone—Indigenous people; Black people; queer people—who continue to demand their rights despite centuries of oppression.

And it also appears they’re keeping Leonard in prison because they’re embarrassed. If the FBI, [slightly more space, we didn’t great a great take here btw. May be easier to just delete one of the “if thes” but i’m leaving in for now] if Federal prosecutors, admit they were wrong about Peltier, it probably means they were wrong about a lot of other things, too.

After the break, we speak with some of the other supporters, friends, and spiritual advisors whose advocacy has helped keep Leonard’s hope alive for almost half a century.

And then, we speak with Leonard.

[TOM MORELLO BREAK]

RORY
I’d love to come out there and see Leonard one of these days. I just don’t know the best way to go about doing it.

PAULETTE
I don’t know if you’ll be able to. How old are you?

VO
That’s the voice of Paulette Dow-TAY, director of the International Leonard Peltier Defense Committee—and the former wife of Bob Robideau. She’s how we first got in touch with Leonard in the summer of 2019. And she was pretty blunt with us about how hard it would be to communicate with him.

RORY
I’m 38.

PAULETTE
Well, you have to have known Leonard before he was incarcerated. 

RORY
Really?

PAULETTE
He’s a federal prisoner and that’s the federal guidelines. There’s a question on there that says how did you know this person before they were incarcerated?

RORY
Weird.

PAULETTE
And sometimes you can get people in as family. I don’t know if you can get in as family or not. Of course you can’t take in any--

RORY
Devices in, right, to record?

PAULETTE
Any recording devices at that time. They totally closed all sort of public relations. 

RORY
He can’t give any interviews, huh?

PAULETTE
It’s not that he can’t. It’s that the prison won’t let anybody give interviews. I mean Leonard would certainly give you an interview.

VO
It’s hard enough to interview an ordinary federal prisoner. It’s exponentially harder to interview Leonard.

As a Native American activist and member of the American Indian Movement, he’s a special case. He was involved in a firefight defending treaty land, the ownership of which is disputed by two sovereign states: the United States and the Oglala Sioux Nation. He’s not just a man falsely accused of murder. 

He’s a political prisoner.

LENNY FOSTER 
The longest war between any, uh, peoples are between the American Indians and the United States government.

VO
This is Lenny Foster, Leonard’s longtime friend and spiritual adviser. The son of a Navajo Code Talker, Lenny tried out for the Los Angeles Dodgers before earning his master’s degree from Arizona State University. He also helped AIM leader Dennis Banks escape Wounded Knee in the middle of the night two days before Federal Agents invaded the village. 

But Lenny’s reach goes way beyond Leonard, Dennis, and Wounded Knee. For decades, at 89 state and federal penitentiaries, Lenny has brought traditional healing and prayer to more than 1,500 imprisoned Native Americans. 

Lenny Foster
You know, the United States government is a very, uh, vicious, very mean-spirited adversary of the American Indians. And they refused to allow any of our human rights defenders. Treaty rights defenders. Leonard Peltier definitely qualifies as a, as a human rights defender, as a treaty rights defender. He was defending his people and this movement. And that's how he ended up incarcerated. He was accused of killing the two FBI agents back in 1975 in Oglala, South Dakota. A complete miscarriage of justice resulted. Lies, fabricated allegations, evidence that was fabricated, that were produced to railroad Leonard Peltier into the federal prison system.

Lenny Foster

So that's the story of our relationship with the United States government. They will take the land, the resources, water, pollute the air, pollute the water, and commit complete colonization of the mind. It's like psychological warfare that they utilize as a technique to keep our people pacified, to keep our people, uh, afraid and scared to stand up. Only the younger generation now has stood up as evidenced by the water protectors in Standing Rock, North Dakota. And Leonard, Leonard Peltier is that symbol of resistance, but the government wants to use that as evidence to keep him incarcerated, that his presence and his voice is threatening to them. You got to understand Leonard's been in prison 44 years. He's 75. He's going to be 76 years old. He's an elder. He's a revered elder. But the United States government still sees him as a threat. 

Lenny Foster
Leonard Peltier's case, it's perhaps one of the most misunderstood and most difficult cases in history. One that is similar to Geronimo. Leonard Peltier is our generation's Geronimo. If you know the story of Geronimo, he was captured in the late 1880s. [There’s a pop here] And he was sent to Florida. And he spent the rest of his life incarcerated in the United States Federal Prison system. And he died in Fort Sill, Oklahoma as a prisoner of war. President Roosevelt wouldn't release him. Though he had an opportunity to do so, but chose not to.

Lenny Foster
The plan by the United States government has always been to eliminate our leaders. Sometimes just outright, uh, assassinations. [There’s a glitch here] They use ways and means, colonization, brainwashing, conquer and divide, COINTELPRO, psychological warfare. That's used by some of these law enforcement agencies of the United States government.

Lenny Foster
It's very important for people who are incarcerated to maintain that connection with the Spirit and to maintain his essence as a human being and to have his, uh, humanity, supported. And we've had to fight for those rights… The cleansing and purification ceremony is called sweat lodges, [Lakota] [Dine] and also having access to Chanunpa, the pipe, tobacco to be used as part of the pipe ceremony.

Lenny Foster
I've known Leonard for 50 years. I first met him in Denver, Colorado in 1970. I was a student at Colorado State University in Fort Collins at the time. He was a young man. He's, he's four years older than me. You know when a relative does time in prison, the whole family is doing time with him. I feel like I've done 44 years with him because I've known him that long. I first started visiting Leonard as his spiritual leader when he was incarcerated at USP, Leavenworth, Kansas. And because of my knowledge and my experience as a Sundancer, a pipe carrier, I was able to do that sweat lodge ceremony with him. And so for 35 years, I've been his spiritual leader, giving him that support, spiritual support, that hope, praying with him, smoking the Chanunpa, which is very important for our people. Making an offering with tobacco, using the fire and the hot stones for the cleansing and the purification ceremonies.

Lenny Foster
I have plans to visit Leonard Peltier. I had to cancel one trip in March of this year, 2020, that I had to cancel because of this COVID19. I've been in shelter-in-place with my family, my grandkids, my son, and his family for four months. It's been a very trying time for our people. I've lost close friends that have became infected with this disease and lost their lives. So it's been a very difficult, very trying times and has resulted in a lot of grief for our people.

Lenny Foster
And we pray that our relatives who are behind iron doors are not affected or catch this disease. I think we have a certain obligation to speak out against the transmission of this disease, who are locked up and can’t move around, who are in close proximity to each other.

Lenny Foster
Once the restrictions have been lifted, then we'll be able to go visit Leonard, sit with him in the visiting room and pray with him and just visit with him. And that's something we hope for very soon.

Andrew
Maybe, maybe he could even get out.

Lenny Foster
Well, that's what we're hoping for. And praying that he'll be released.

VO
Another person who prays a lot for Leonard’s release, and visits him whenever she can, is Connie Nelson. 

Connie Nelson
I was married to Willie Nelson. And in 1987, Willie was part of a big fundraiser that was done called Cowboys for Indians and Justice for Leonard Peltier. 

VO
Connie is a film producer, activist, and mother. In 1984, a film she helped make called Streetwise, about homeless teenagers in Seattle, was nominated for an Academy Award. 

Connie Nelson
Willie was part of it, of course, and Kris Kristofferson, Joni Mitchell, Robin Williams. And of course, Peter Coyote was the master of ceremonies and put it all together. So that's when I first heard Leonard's name. And of course, I mean, just, I think anybody that first hears about it realizes the injustice and just how horrible it would be for any of us to be in prison for something we didn't do. Like Leonard always says, if this happened to me, this could happen to anybody. 

Connie Nelson
And then of course, after that life went on. I had two girls and a family and Willie on the road and everything. So I didn't, and my fault, I didn't stay in touch. I just had, I just was crazy there for years, but...

Connie Nelson
And of course, I'm sorry, but the guilt that I had for letting it slide for so many years when I knew it was so important. 

Connie Nelson
Then probably six, maybe seven years ago, a friend of mine here in Austin, uh, Tommi Lee Edmondson, called me, and she had been writing to Leonard. And I guess she mentioned that she and I were friends, and he asked her to ask me if I would write to him. Well, of course, I mean, that just threw me back right back to 1987…

VO
Back in 1987, the FBI picketed the Cowboys for Indians Benefit in Orange County, CA that Peter Coyote had organized, and that Connie’s husband, Willie, headlined. To get through the gates, you had to pass through a gauntlet of chanting agents.

Connie Nelson
At that time, the FBI was like the final word. Their word was golden. But when you really dig into everything, they were covering up injustice. And the agents that were there, they probably weren't even as schooled in what had happened. They were just doing their job. But it was a trying time. But looking back on all that, you know, the saying hindsight is 2020, of course they were covering up for other agents that messed up. So it's just a horrible time all the way around when it comes to Leonard and everything that he's fought for. It just... it makes me so mad every time I can't even hardly think about anything else. He was given two life sentences. And when he was convicted, a life sentence was 20 years. Well, he's been in now 44 years going on 45. So right there, just that alone, just that one little thing alone, he should be out.

Connie Nelson
I just keep trying to find ways that we can help him and get the word out and, and just get him out of there. Sure seems like there's a lot more reason and a lot more people that have looked at all the evidence and realize that, wait a minute, no matter what this needs to be reinvestigated. Or let him out. He's already too old to be in there. He's sick. If anything, I mean, he's costing the state a lot of money just with the medical things that he needs. Let him out, let him go home. 

Rory
Well, we're we're with you on that. I mean, that just annoys and upsets me to no end is that they are still keeping him in this supermax prison in Florida...

Connie Nelson
And he's not a threat to anybody, anybody, you know? Anybody could outrun him. You know what I mean? He's not a threat to one person. One of the most loving things that could happen is sending him closer to his home, so he could see his relatives in a non maximum security setting. Why not do that? It's maddening that they won't do something like that when they've got all the power to do that.

Andrew
There is no compassion anywhere for the guy. It's unbelievable.

Connie Nelson
Zero, no, zero. I think a lot of people look at it like, you know, indicted for killing two FBI agents and they don't look any further than that. It doesn't matter that there was evidence to the contrary—or any of that. They just see that. And that's it, they’re just close minded to the rest of it.

Connie Nelson
I've gone to see him twice at Coleman. I've gone in and it's, I mean, it's hard going in being slammed in just for a day with him. I come back from there, and I just... it grates on me. I think about it when I wake up that Leonard's waking up into this same hell hole that he's been in. And I go to sleep thinking he's not even getting a good night's rest. But the thing that sticks with me always is that if he doesn't give up, if he doesn't give up, how can we give up on him? He has such a resolve. He's just a good man. With this virus, for instance, he cares so much. He sees the news and he worries about all of us on the outside. You know, I just, he's just a good man.

Rory
I think you said in your email, you, you spoke with him recently, right?

Connie Nelson
Yes. I spoke with him. Uh, let me see what is today? I think it was Friday. I spoke with him, and he said that there's two cases of the virus, but it was in the kitchen, like people that weren't involved with the prisoners or in contact. But the fact that there's already two cases in the prison, that's scary. But then, you know, he sounded good. He said, you know, they're all wearing their masks. They're being as careful as they can. He only gets out like an hour and a half, every couple of, of every couple of days. And that does not include going outside. They can't do that anymore. But in that hour and a half, they have to get their shower. Maybe if there's an opening they can get to a phone or they can get to a computer all within that hour and a half time. So now he's more limited than ever before.

Rory
So how did it work when you went to see him in Coleman? 

Connie Nelson
You check in and then you sit in a room just like in a little, like, waiting room with, maybe, I don't know, 20, 25 other people that are waiting to see their relatives or loved ones. The second time I sat there for over two and a half hours, no cell phone. You just sit there and twiddle your thumbs. And then you go into this, it's like a big cafeteria looking place, just metal chairs and, you know, no color, nothing. And then they bring in the inmates and, you know, little sections, people are sitting in little sections and waiting for their loved ones. And Leonard comes in with a big smile, every time, just so happy to see people. So happy to have a different norm than what he usually does. 

Connie Nelson
And we'd just sit there and talk about everything. First thing he wants to know is how are you, what's going on? What's life like on the other side? And then, then he starts talking about things that he's been thinking about. Maybe what we could do different. What we're thinking might help. And then, you know, then there's a certain time, I think three o'clock it's over, you know the prisoners have to line up and that's, I can't even tell you, it's just the hardest thing. They line up on one side. And then we get on the other side by the guards and Leonard just kind of waves. And knowing that when he goes through that door, you’re not going to see him again for who knows, maybe years. And then after they take him out, then we go out and I, I swear, it's all I could do to not cry. I could cry right now just thinking about it. It's just one of the hardest things ever. To leave him in there. And to know that that was the big highlight maybe for a month for him just to see somebody on the outside and be able to sit there and talk without, you know, without a 10 minute or 15 minute time limit that he gets on the phone.

[Music up]

Connie Nelson
If Leonard doesn't give up, how can we? After almost 45 years of being incarcerated, if he can still have hope even for a day that he might get out, he still puts faith in people. Because he's innocent. If he wasn't innocent, he probably would have given up on this a long time ago. The fact that he is innocent, he has no quit in him. So I have no quit in me. I feel like the lawyers that are working for him now have the same commitment. And you guys look at you guys, what you're doing. If we can keep that momentum going for Leonard and think about him daily as not being a quitter and being a fighter for his people. Then maybe, maybe there is still hope that we can get him out. 

VO
After the break, [tiny bit more space] we finally talk with Leonard...

[Connie Nelson Break]

VO
Despite all the restrictions barring journalists from talking with Leonard, we managed to get on his call list. I wasn’t supposed to record the conversation. But to hell with it. With COVID-19 ravaging prison populations, people need to understand just how vulnerable he is.

RORY
How's your health doing?

LEONARD PELTIER
Well, you know, I've got an aortic aneurism, that's, uh, quite large, and, uh, could burst at any time, you know. If it does, that's the end. The only way I'd be saved if I was in the hospital while it burst, but being in a prison cell, that's pretty much fatal. And, uh, you know, I just had a major heart operation, uh, bypass and stuff like this. They also, uh, found some spots in my lungs. So, uh, I don't know, whatever, that and a prostate problem, plus the other aches and pains of my knee, my hip. My other knee is starting to hurt now too. So geez. I'm thinking the other day. I was thinking, God damn, I hope that that don't go out, then I'm in a wheelchair, you know?

RORY 
God, that's brutal.

LEONARD PELTIER
Well, you know, I will be 75 here in about four months, five months, September.

RORY
Oh okay.

LEONARD PELTIER
I'm not no young man no more.

RORY
75 years, that's a long haul.

LEONARD PELTIER
Yeah. Yeah. A long haul. Oh, I get these problems taken care of though, shit, I could probably go another 20 years. My family went, I had longevity in my family.

RORY
I believe you. Yeah, I know. Your, how long, your dad lived to be?

LEONARD PELTIER
Huh?

RORY
Your dad, how old was he?

LEONARD PELTIER
Not my dad. My dad didn't live to be 67 or something like that, but he had diabetes from a young age. He never took care of himself. But his father, my grandfather, he lived to be a hundred. And then, uh, her grandfather lived to be over a hundred. So there's longevity there. I've got an aunt right now that's 94. She's still kicking. I got two, three aunties still kicking. Seventies and eighties and nineties.

RORY
Well, we gotta get you out of there. Like you said, you could, you could get the medical treatment and you'll be good for another 20 years.

ROBOT
This call is from a federal prison.

LEONARD PELTIER
Yeah. The aneurism could be fixed in a three hour operation, you know. And, uh, this prostate problem, uh, I had a specialist come in and he's telling me they gotta do ultra lift they call it. That's only a 10 minute operation, but if it keeps going the way it's going, and it's not treated, then it's going to develop into something more serious, you know?

LEONARD PELTIER
And the lungs, I don't know what the hell that is. I really don't know. They won't tell me what the hell it is, you know. 

RORY
You can't get the procedures. What do the doctors say? They just, you can't get the--

LEONARD PELTIER
Well, they won't, basically, in prison, they won't treat you until it's a life and death matter. Then it's usually too late, you know?

ROBOT
<<beeps>>

RORY
Right. And it doesn't sound like that. It sounds like that would be more expensive. I mean, once it's life or death, just logically, that's going to be a more expensive procedure than like you just said doing a 10 minute deal.

LEONARD PELTIER
Yeah, I know. Yeah. Well, yeah, listen, I agree. But that's just not reality while you're, for a prisoner.

ROBOT
<<beeps>>

[Music up slowly]

LEONARD PELTIER
They're going to shut me off, bro, but listen, also watch out for the emails, so we can email, because I only get so many minutes a month. Right? But we can do the email probably tomorrow or something, but watch for it. All you do is answers and stuff. Then soon as I see your approval, I'll send you an email, and, uh, we can start emailing.

RORY
Yeah, that'd be good, man. I'll definitely want to talk to you some more-- 

<<Call drops>>

[Music Beat]

VO
We got an email from Leonard last week.  We hadn’t talked to him in almost a year. We wrote to give him a run-down of the work we’d been doing on season 1, and the response we’d gotten—both from his long-time supporters and a new generation of people hearing his story for the first time. Because we don’t have Leonard’s voice, here’s Peter Coyote reading for Leonard again. 

PETER COYOTE
Hey Bro, finally. I was beginning to think you was full of shit...

VO
He inserted a smiley face. Our hearts lifted.

PETER COYOTE
But now it’s all going great… Let’s build us a team and do this until we get the most downloads for a podcast ever imagined! 

VO
Another smiley face.

PETER COYOTE
If we do it we can make history, brother. 

VO
Smiley face number 3.

PETER COYOTE
As you can see, you have my attention now.

VO
A few months ago, this country emerged from the coma of COVID-19 to the crack of gunshots, to the sound of a man gasping for breath and calling for his mother.

George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery are some of the latest names on the list of victims of a judicial system that has behaved for centuries as if it weren’t accountable to the most vulnerable people it’s supposed to serve.

That list of victims also includes Edith Eagle Hawk and her babies, Joe Stuntz, Wesley Bad Heart Bull, Frank Clearwater, Buddy Lamont, and the 60-some AIM activists and supporters killed on Pine Ridge in the 1970s. 

In the United States, the more than 500 missing and murdered indigenous women, girls, and two-spirits identified by the Coalition to Stop Violence Against Native Women… they’re on that list, too. For that matter, so are the 824 missing and murdered First Nations women north of the medicine line.

Right now, Leonard isn’t on that list. But he will be if he dies in Coleman Federal Penitentiary. 

President Trump could free Leonard with the stroke of a pen. 

It wouldn’t undo the damage already done. 

It wouldn’t save the lives of the millions who have died since Columbus invaded this continent back in 1492.

But it would end ONE injustice. It would restore SOME of the dignity we’ve stripped from ONE man. 

It’s part of the healing. [Slightly more space] It’s part of the dismantling of our racist, colonialist past.

THAT'S why it's time to Free Leonard Peltier.

[BEAT]

On the next season of Leonard: Political Prisoner…

Dave Tilsen
The FBI were going all over. Sometimes they had a search warrant but most of the time they didn’t. There’s helicopters landing at Edgar Bear Runner’s house.

Edgar Bear Runner
15 FBI agents flooded the house. Came in, shotguns, AR-15s, 16s, just to arrest me. They said throw him off the bridge right here. Trying to play psych on me.

Milo Yellow Hair
One of those FBI agents said, “You know, Yellow Hair, we owe you one more.” Who is this one that they are talking about? We’re talking about Leonard Peltier as the sacrificial lamb to a monumental FBI coverup.

Mike Kuzma
We always suspected that there was an FBI informant near the defense team... Subfile-N, that's the informant file. And we have not gotten full access to that, nor has Leonard's defense attorneys. This stuff should have been turned over in 1977. How can you properly defend yourself when there's thousands of pages still being kept secret by the government?

Bruce Ellison
In order to deny him a new trial, even good judges like Judge Haney… dramatically misinterpreted the very recent decision of the US Supreme court the year before… And they went through… several paragraphs legal and factual fantasies to, um, to, uh, deny him a new trial and say, really the government prosecuted him as an aider and abettor, and that was bullshit. And they knew it.

Paulette D'auteuil
Roque Duenas, he was a fisherman, abd he was found in the lake all tied up in his net.

Jean Roach
Bobby Garcia, they tried to say he hung himsel,f but he was assassinated.

Paulette D'auteuil
Of all the people who helped Leonard escape, Leonard is the only one left alive.

Milo Yellow Hair
The legacy is that he caused others to stand up. And he stood with them. And when it needs to come to paying a price, he's willing to do it. And he did, and he does every day. We can't forget him out here. You know all the legal arguments have pretty much been exhausted. Probably the only thing that's left is someone good enough to say this is not what the United States is about and free the man.

[CREDITS]